Comments on: Preparing to Click! /2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/ Technology blog of the Brooklyn Museum Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:31:10 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.5.3 By: Shelley Bernstein /2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/comment-page-1/#comment-356 Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:47:10 +0000 /bloggers/2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/#comment-356 Hi James,

With this exhibition, we designed the evaluation interface so that individuals were looking at a work of photography individually – we did not expect people to finish and discussed this aspect at length with our consultants. We were following strictures in the book The Wisdom of Crowds and we purposely designed the interface to reflect these theories. The stats are published for your own interpretation and you may disagree, but the exhibition stands as it is.

I do want to thank you for posting – the blog is a great place for a discussion like this.

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By: James Hanlon /2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/comment-page-1/#comment-290 Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:52:38 +0000 /bloggers/2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/#comment-290 My impression at the start of this project was that all viewers were to view all entries. That didn’t happen. That skews the results and questions the logic of this endeavor.
It would be of interest to see the results obtained when looking at the choices made by the group of reviewers that viewed all of the entries.
That ain’t “sour grapes” – that’s a justifiable and logical request.

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By: Mauricio Lopez /2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/comment-page-1/#comment-352 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:25:14 +0000 /bloggers/2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/#comment-352 I applaud the open concept of this exhibition, and I think that the process has been explained clearly since the submission phase, and if I submitted my work, was understanding the experimental nature of this show. I participated and didn’t make it to the top 78 images but that doesn’t mean I should criticize the process and question the crowd theory after the fact. It is clear to me that this has been an experimental exhibition and we all should look at it with those eyes. It sounds like a bunch of sour grapes to me.

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By: Patricia Perlo /2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/comment-page-1/#comment-351 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 11:08:46 +0000 /bloggers/2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/#comment-351 Professional artists/photographers work for years for the opportunity that I have received. MY WORK IS IN THE BROOKLYN MUSEUM OF ART.

The process of selection was painstaking and even if it was slightly flawed, there is NO reason to denigrate the Museum, Shelley or anyone involved. Name me another museum anywhere in the world where this would even be considered.

And always remember, this museum has 1.5 million holdings, one of the greatest collections of Egyptian Art in the world…repeat in the world, a Luce Study Center for American Art – there are only 4 in the entire country.

My resume that centers on business analysis and technical writing will be updated tomorrow.

Thankyou Brooklyn Museum for the honor of giving me 5 x 7 inches of space on your fabulous walls.

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By: Mark Blackshear /2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/comment-page-1/#comment-350 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:20:00 +0000 /bloggers/2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/#comment-350 Hi folks I’m sorry I opened or re-opened this can of worms.
They released the names, and images, thats all I wanted.
We are all a part of a momentous endeavor, for which I AM EXCEEDINGLY GRATEFUL!
I hope to evaluate the exhibit in person, very soon, at which point I will access just how excited I think I should be.
If anything, I can add to my resume, the fact, that my work was in the Brooklyn Museum!
That makes it all worthwhile for me. Life is too short for me to get twisted up over all these statistical and technical details.
You might not agree or accept my zen like acceptance of all this drama, but I think we all need to relax and and enjoy the free ride. For that is what it was, for me anyway.

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By: Gary Sloman /2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/comment-page-1/#comment-349 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:11:01 +0000 /bloggers/2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/#comment-349 I have not read Surwiecki’s book, but if popular culture or national election results represents the wisdom of crowds, I am not impressed with the concept. However, even if one were to accept that somehow the masses will have the right answer, the methodology used, of viewing each photo seriatum in a vacuum, except for remembering the prior images, seems fundamentally flawed to me. No curator would ever make selections in such a fashion, but would view them all and gradually winnow them down. Why it is better for the crowd to use this peculiar (annoying and frustrating) method, is beyond me. And why is it important not to go back – again, this is totally artificial and would never be required in the real world.

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By: James Hanlon /2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/comment-page-1/#comment-348 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 03:32:31 +0000 /bloggers/2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/#comment-348 The “crowd-self-correction idea” is flawed. Do you have supporting research for this “theory” or is it just a “cool idea” that museum curators are buying into?

Some of the “Facts/Statistics” offered are inaccurate and/or of little value.
For example: “Each of the 389 images was seen approximately 1,054 times”. That is false. That is a useless statistic which was obtained by merely dividing the number of reviewers by the number of entries – and therefore serves as misleading invalid pseud-data.

I am very disappointed that the Brooklyn Museum has bought into the whole “Crowd-self-correction idea” as if it was a tested and verified concept. Its is not.

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By: Shelley Bernstein /2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/comment-page-1/#comment-347 Sat, 28 Jun 2008 02:48:18 +0000 /bloggers/2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/#comment-347 Hi James,

Thanks for writing. One of the things we really wanted to do with this show is be as transparent as possible, so much of the data is there for you to analyze and interpret as you wish. You bring up an interesting point here and it is one that our consultants talked to us about at length, actually. We were cautioned to think about this process not as individuals seeing everything, but rather the “crowd” was curating and the “crowd” would self-correct over time. As long as we could get enough people to participate, there would be enough sets of eyes seeing photos at differing times (owing to the randomization) to allow for the crowd’s self-correction. (This notion of self-correction is something that James Surowiecki brings up in The Wisdom of Crowds quite a bit.) The consultants explained this very idea was the difference between an individual curating and a crowd curating and we designed the entire process around this crowd-self-correction idea. For instance, we didn’t offer a way for evaluators to return to works to change their response and we didn’t invalidate data if an entire evaulation wasn’t completed. But I’m no expert :) James Surowiecki is going to be writing about the data for the blog a bit later in the run. I don’t know if he’ll cover either of these issues, but I’m pretty interested in what he has to say.

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By: James Hanlon /2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/comment-page-1/#comment-346 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:00:21 +0000 /bloggers/2008/06/19/preparing-to-click/#comment-346 Shelly –
I’m sorry but I just don’t buy your explanation.

In the “Facts” section it is reported that “on average, each evaluator looked at 135 works”. That means that more than half of the contributions were not evaluated.

In my opinion, the results were tainted. The playing field was not equal across the board for every contributor.

There were “3,344 evaluators (who) cast 410,089 evaluations”. Out of the 3,344 evaluators only “575 people evaluated all 389 of the submitted works, completing the evaluation.”

The bottom line is that the bulk of the entries never had a chance and the efforts of those photographers were wasted and exploited for the sake of statistics and numbers.

I would like to know what the results would have been if you had only looked at the evaluations of the 575 people who evaluated all 389 entries.

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